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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:21 pm
Posts: 5
Hello guys,

I have installed new OpenVibe (1.3.0) and latest community Emotiv SDK and I'm trying to run epoc+ with the Acquisition Server. When i run the Acquisition Server I go to "Driver properties" and i point "Path to Emotiv Research SDK" to location where my edk.dll (inside community SDK) is, as shown on screenshot below:
Image

Then I press "Connect" in Acquisition Server and it seems to connect properly, but when I press "Play" it throws error:
[ ERROR ] [LOOP] Emotiv Driver: An error occurred while updating the DataHandle. EDK Error Code [8226]
[WARNING] Something bad happened in the loop callback, stopping the acquisition
as shown in screenshot below:
Image

Could the problem be in the fact that I only have community SDK (since Epoc doesn't give his actual SDK so easily) or am I missing something else? Maybe I need to activate community SDK in some way or change something on it?

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Luka


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:52 pm
Posts: 23
hello @lbatistic
to clear things up a little, because I spent way too much time with that topic. To make it short, your hardware isn't yours anymore (see Tiwoisation). The community sdk most likely does not work with openvibe due to following reasons:
(1) openvibe cannot use the closed-source algorithms of f. i. the cognitive suite, at least not by default, just the raw EEG-Data
(2) the emotiv community SDK does not provide raw EEG data
(3) if your headset is not unlocked (Premium or Research Version) you won't be able to use the headset, even with the Premium SDKs
(4) Upgrading the headset can be expensive and a hassle
(5) There are multiple projects that reverse engineered the driver to get the raw data, but for the cost of convenience, time, support, ...

Best :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:21 pm
Posts: 5
Thank you for the reply LeeFX,
I don't quiet understand the point (3) of your reply. Are you saying that even with Premium Emotiv SDK, regular Epoc+ (which costs $799) cannot be paired with OpenVibe? Because nowhere on Emotiv web page could I find something about different types of Epoc+ (e.g. "Regular" and "Research"). I am aware that before Epoc+, with old Epocs there was "Gaming" and "Research" type of device (and each of them, of course, cost different amount of money), but since Epoc+ came out I haven't heard about such thing.

Anyway:
1)To my experience, getting Premium Emotiv SDK (v.3.3.3) is quiet hard now - because with previous version of Epoc (before Epoc+), and previous versions of research Emotiv SDK (e.g. Emotiv Research Edition SDK v2.0.0.20) it was quiet simple to get SDK (and thus, it was easy to pair Epoc with OpenVibe), but now they just don't give access to SDK so easily. I'm working on a scientific research project on Faculty of Engineering Rijeka - Croatia, and they declined our applications for Premium SDK saying that they don't usually give access to SDK and that "There is a strenuous application process to be approved for this access and a substantial fee to obtain it".

And then
2)If this, what you're saying under point (3) in your post, is true: Even if one gets SDK from Emotiv, he would still need to pay great amount of money to unlock his Epoc+ device (to be "premium" or "research" version)?

In my opinion, this makes Epoc+ really one of the worst "budget" EEG devices because it only leaves you with 2 options:
a) Try to get Pemium SDK (and pay for it) and unlock your device (and pay for that too) - even if you succeed in doing those two tings, Epoc+ would no longer be a "budget" device, or
b) Use only apps made by Emotiv (which, naturally, excludes OpenVibe) since you don't have a proper SDK (API).

Besides, although in OpenVibe v1.3.0 Epoc+ (i.e. Emotiv SDK v3.3.3) support has been implemented, there is no great use of it since very few people (if any?) will be able to pair Epoc+ with OpenVibe if you take all those drawbacks into consideration. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

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Luka


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:53 pm
Posts: 762
Location: INRIA Rennes, FRANCE
Hi LeeFX & Luka,

just to chime in -- here at Inria Rennes the Emotiv EPOCs we have are all quite old, more than 4 years I think, they are from the 1.x SDK period. They all say 'Research Edition' in the boxes. We don't currently have anything else. With this material available, the most we can usually do is to keep OpenViBE working for our old devices.

It might be possible in principle to get the Community SDK to work with OpenViBE, though of course I don't know what kind of hindrances have been built in. The process would go roughly like this: Take the OpenViBE Emotiv driver source code. Replace all Emotiv Research SDK calls that do not exist in the Community SDK with calls that do exist there. Compile. Run. I expect that in this case you'd be able to pull the preprocessed data out from Emotiv, but not the raw data. I don't currently have the time to explore this myself, although it seems relatively straighforward.

Regarding the capabilities and limitations of the devices and the SDKs, I suppose its best to try to contact Emotiv customer service. I know that at the moment OpenViBE requires the research edition of the SDK, but I do not know which hardware exactly works with the OpenViBE driver.

ps. LeeFX, thanks for the point #3. I was not actually aware of that.


My three cents,
Jussi


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:52 pm
Posts: 23
xD at first I thought, 'Oh wow, they have thrown out the Gamer-Headset and just provide one basic Research Headset'

But then
EPOC+ (799 $) Description:
"Provides access to dense array, high quality, raw EEG data with software subscription."
"Need access to raw EEG data? Add Pure.EEG"
-> Montly subscription and limited recordings
-> 50 Recordings for 49 $ / month

= now your hardware is 'officially' not yours anymore!

Older and newer Headests are Hardware- and Software locked in different ways. I am not sure if the Community SDK cannot be integrated that easily (I swear we tried it). I have absolutely no idea, in how far the current cloud subscription process is compatible with openvibe, or in how far the headset can work offline or if it works with reverse engineering methods.

Sorry Emotiv, but you lost me long time ago, due to multiple reasons, and we even still need to develop for your hardware... what a pity...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:57 am
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hi, have you make it?can you get raw eeg fromepoc+,now.this question make me upset,thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:52 pm
Posts: 23
I guess so, the Emotiv Insight should work too, because it uses the same SDK which now works with openvibe 1.3

I mean, you can get Raw Data from Emotiv Products anyway, if you pay enough.. nowadays emotiv policy is a subscription model and
newer hardware might be locked to the emotiv cloud, so they know exactly how often you are recording and to monetize that.

see: https://www.emotiv.com/software/

But I am not sure, if the newer devices are locked to the subscription model, or if you can still get the Raw Data with the newer Hardware + OpenVibe (with newest SDK)
Would be nice to know, though..


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:52 pm
Posts: 23
I made an updated post on this whole topic here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9758&p=15939#p15939


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