NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

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lebkuchen
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:13 pm

NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by lebkuchen »

Dear all,

I am a master student in the field of neuropsychology and a beginner when it comes to OpenViBE, so I hope to get most of the terms right.
For a study we want to provide the participants with neurofeedback. We have modified the .lua-file so that the participants will see the necessary triggers on screen. For this paradigm we used a combination of Aurora and OpenViBE (NIRx NIRSport2). After a trial we would get a .tri-file and there we would see a lot of nonsense-triggers at random times of the day. Here it helped to modify the order of the programs (for example to stop in OpenViBE first and then stop Aurora) to get a .tri-file in correct order (most of the time at least).
But if we load the .nirs-file into Homer2 the file seems corrupted. The triggers we want are there and marked correctly in color, but in the drop-down menu there are more than 10.000 triggers. Also it takes the file a very long time to even load in Homer2. When using the NIRS toolbox the file even seems empty. I tried to remove the file-writer (including the trigger-images and the lua-script) from the OpenViBE tree but the results stay the same. Only when using Aurora without OpenViBE, the file seems normal in Homer2 but without OpenViBE we can not send the triggers to the participants for the feedback and also don't receive a file about the triggers.
Now, some changes are notable when changing settings in the OpenViBE-Acquisition-Server. With certain changes there are even more chaotic and nonsensical triggers in the .tri-file so there could be a connection. The main obstacle we suspect is that LSL is noted as unstable in the Aquistion-Server. Could this bee the root of the problem? If so is there a solution or any alternative?

Thank you for reading!

Thomas
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 pm

Re: NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by Thomas »

Hi lebkuchen,

I am not sure to have understood correctly what your scenario looks like but it seems like you're using the Display Cue Image box, am I right ?
If yes, is the box receiving stimulations from the acquisition client at all?

Some boxes, like the Display Cue Image forward the received stimulations to the acquisition server via TCP with the mechanism called TCP-Tagging.
If such a box receives stimulations directly from the acquisition server via the acquisition client box, it will create a infinite loop of triggers being received and sent to TCP tagging, generating a lot of triggers. You can check if your problem gets solved by changing the TCP Tagging port in the acquisition server preferences, to prevent the Display Cue Image to connect to it.

This is just an idea of what could go wrong, but I may have misunderstood what goes on. If you want to share you scenario, it could be helpful to understand better what's going wrong.

Indeed, the LSL box is marked as Unstable, and this is because it has not been tested properly or received enough feedback. However, there are more and more people using the box and I don't think that the problem you describe would come from it.

Hope this helps a bit,

Cheers,
Thomas

lebkuchen
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:13 pm

Re: NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by lebkuchen »

Hi Thomas!

Yes, I am using the Display Cue box, but changes in the acquisition server could not solve the problem.
We still use the Display Cue box and use a .lua-script so that the participants receive our randomized triggers on screen, this part works.
But to stop the vast amount of unnecessary triggers from appearing we removed the "LSL Export" from our design in OpenViBE. This works as our files do not get corrupted by extra triggers, but now we would have to press F1 and F2 manually each time for the triggers we need to appear in our marker-files. This does work but creates some additional effort for this study. Do you know if there might be a workaround for this? For extra information I could post a screenshot of our OpenViBe design if this is needed?

Thomas
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 pm

Re: NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by Thomas »

Hi,

I see, pressing keys to insert triggers is not very convenient indeed.
That would definitely help me to see the scenario, because I am not entirely sure how everything connects.

Coud you share your scenario with the problematic LSL box as well, so that we can understand where it is in the pipeline ?

Thank you,
Thomas

lebkuchen
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:13 pm

Re: NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by lebkuchen »

Hi,

I have attached the old scenario as a file. The new scenario is the same but with LSL Export missing.
I think it sends too many timestamps to the .-nirs-file, but I am not sure.

Thank you for your time!

Edit: attaching the file does not work, the board attachment quota has been reached. Is there anything I can do about this?

Thomas
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 pm

Re: NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by Thomas »

Hi,

I sent you a private message but it seems that you have not seen it. Hopefully you will see this one.

I have updated the forum settings to allow bigger attachments if you want to try again.

You can message me privately if it does not work, so we can try something different.

Thanks,
Thomas

lebkuchen
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:13 pm

Re: NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by lebkuchen »

Hi Thomas!

Thank you, the attachment seems to work now.

In the attachment you can see the scenario in which the trigger file was spammed with thousands of unnecessary cues - which I assume could be timestamps? Fast paced timestamps would make sense for EEG but since NIRS has a slower pace the file gets spammed. At least this is what I suspect but I am a beginner so I might be very well wrong with my assumptions.

In the new scenario we simply removed LSL Export so the .nirs-file remains usable for Homer2.
By now a workaround has also been found via Homer2 so not all triggers have to be added via buttons manually, this makes my request less urgent.

But if there is still a more elegant solution, which is directly applicable in OpbenVibe I would still be grateful for suggestions so I can learn more for the future. The goal would be a .tri-file and .nirs-file with only the triggers shown to the participant as they are defined by the .lua-script (added at Timeline generator) without the additional timestamps.

Thank you for your effort, it is very appreciated.
Attachments
scenario.jpg
scenario.jpg (112.91 KiB) Viewed 4424 times

Thomas
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 pm

Re: NIRS-Neurofeedback using OpenViBE and Aurora

Post by Thomas »

Hi,

Thanks for sharing the scenario.

The issue I was worried about is actually not happening here, and the scenario seems fine.

If I understand well, you are sending the stimulations from OpenViBE to Aurora, via the LSL Export Box, which seems to be sending way too many stimulations, right?
Could it be an issue with the Lua script as well ? You could use the Stimulation Listener box, on the output of the Lua stimulator box, in order to check what the Lua script is actually sending.

Do you have a way to see in real-time (not afterwards in the .tri-file) what stimulations Aurora is receiving over LSL ?

Feel free to share your lua script as well if you want.

Thanks,
Thomas

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